Client feedback & the endless "colors are off" problem

Oliviero Bella Vita Jan 11, 2017

  1. Hey guys,

    I am mainly in TV Commercials, and clients (creative directors) give their feedback to us on the grade either by looking at the material on their mobile phones or MAC laptops, and there is always this endless back and forth about skintones being too red, or mood too pale, or not warm etc. Clients so so rarely attend the grading suite anymore.

    The truth is that in our suite we grade on DaVinci and use a 25" Panasonic BT-LH2550 as our broadcast/pro monitor. Looking at the apple display DaVinci runs on, their comments are valid, but not on the ref monitor. It got so heated with one clients that he never worked with us again thinking we don't know what we're doing.

    We solved this by simply grading based on our Retina MAC screens and feedback from clients has been minor and/or constructive. Now of course this is not the way to do it, but this is the way we're able to get a final "approval" on the TVC in order to go on air, or (recently) on social media and youtube.

    Moreover, since a lot of what we do is switching towards content which is ending up online, I believe a retina display is enough to pull off a grade. How much the advertising industry has changed in the last 5yrs is incredible.

    Looking forward to your comments!
  2. When's the last time you calibrated the Panasonic? Those have always leaned green to me, and even a pro/broadcast monitor should be recalibrated regularly..
    Margus Voll likes this.
  3. Having a lightspace report for the reference monitor and a Mac laptop for comparison usually resolves this discussion.
    Tero Ahlfors likes this.
  4. The truth is most mac / Retina screens are at 200/300 nits so everything looks way saturated. It's a real problem. I 've got used to it. whenever a client annoys me with that I make everything less bright and less saturated on the timeline node. hah.
  5. The perfect situation would be to send over a guy to the client's office and calibrate their monitor as much as is possible (and practical). Just turning off the automatics, getting it close to 6500°, and getting the PLUGE pulse set makes a big difference.
    Qiang Tang likes this.
  6. I wish, they're mostly overseas, Dubai and the sort
  7. Few days ago. Mine leans red actually I feel. How did you calibrate yours?
  8. I do final delivery mainly to mobile screens (cell and VR), I am hoping one of you expert/industry guys put something together on "Mobile&VR color management". I btw noticed today the google pixel/dreamvr does an excellent job on blacks but does some funky things on whites(this is about opposite what happens on oculus). Another thing is it's sometimes the mobile screen, but often I find there is some wierd software thing in color management. And on the VR side I'd say the screen is at issue bellow half the time, most of the time the black point/white point/tint issues have to do with the lensing.
  9. It's been a long time since I've been in front of one.

    We use Lightspace and a Klein probe for our screens, and throw a LUT box in the chain where needed.
  10. Since they can afford remote grading, they probably can afford an i1 Display Pro..
    Marc Wielage likes this.
  11. Hello Oliviero
    I'm living in Dubai but I'm in vacation right now and i will be back in 21st of this month and in my home setup I have FSI CM250 if you like you can send your client to view the video in my monitor.
    Marc Wielage likes this.
  12. Look into:
    If you have the gear you can offer to calibrate your client's hardware or at least make a screening LUT for output (a slippery slope)
  13. hmmm ... this could work ... what if did a screen pattern on a ezio 318, oculus rift, vive, google pixel, daydream, ipad ; placed all of them next to the 318 in a dark room; took a shot of all of them in the same frame with a RED camera (of which I have color tables for). Then I could atleast know the color drifts between each of these devices. Sometimes the films are actually run through unity, so theoreticaly I guess I could have a different color lookup table for each of these phone devices?
  14. We are beta testing an Android/iSO patch generator - LightSpace Connect - that will profile mobile phones, as well as 'cast' to TVs, etc..
    Info was announced in our latest new letter:

    At least this will enable VR screens to be profiled, and allow the generation of correction LUTs - but you would have to burn the LUTs into the video footage, as your can't actually colour manage phone screens via LUTs (yet...)

    Patrick Faith likes this.
  15. You are better off calibrating the devices individually. Looking at a screen from another captured color space is a no-no. All devices/platforms transform/transcode media. It' the nature of things. Even uploading a movie with Vimeo specs to Vimeo... it gets re-encoded. You can control/account for them all... When someone adjust their brightness levels which can (sometimes) effect saturation or contrast (which always effects saturation) on your client's client's (not a typo) device... all your calibration is slightly/majorly off. You just have to get the initial colorspace and gamma right and let it be and teach your clients about the process.
    Send them calibrated iPads or Laptops or go to their offices and calibrate their gear for them. Good for client bonds and your sanity.
    my 2¢
    Marc Wielage likes this.

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