1. I used my coffee break today to look into grain plates. Initially i just wanted to share which offers i found but i'm also interested in your experience. Do you use them yourselves? And if yes - which ones? How do you use them, how frequently, do clients ask you for re-graining, what's your personal taste and so on...

    Anyway here's what i found. First some free offers - as little there might be:
    Gorilla Grain offers a medium dirty Grain Plate in 720p and some burns in 1080 all encoded h264 (http://gorillagrain.com/features)
    HolyGrain gives away one 35mm dirty Grain Plate (http://holygrain.com/free-film-grain-download/)
    Vegasour has one free 720p download on vimeo(http://vegasaur.com/free-35mm-film-grain)
    VisionColor gives away a full package of different Grains, Burns, LightLeaks and Noise for just a facebook-like (http://vision-color.com/free-stuff/)

    Here are some offers i'd call affordable:
    HolyGrain offers a bundle of different 35, 16 and 8mm plates as well as some dirt for 49$. They've also got 4k scans for extra charge (http://holygrain.com/products/).
    Vegasour also has different bundles ranging from 30-50$ and one 4k scan (http://vegasaur.com/film-grain).
    The bundles by rgrain range from 50-100$. They also offer one 6k scan. (http://rgrain.com/buy/)
    GorillaGrain also offers different bundles. Their "super pack" goes for 99$ (http://gorillagrain.com/products-2)
    And there's of course filmconvert. They take a different approach. Instead of just scanning film and rendering out plates they sell plugins which are supposed to completely emulate certain film stocks. Sounds too good to be true and probably is but there are lots of fans out there and they just released a new OFX plugin for Resolve10. Costs 199$ (http://www.filmconvert.com/purchase/default.aspx)

    So finally the premium offers:
    CineGrain - huge package - supposedly very high quality. They've got an indie package for projects with budgets up to 100k for 500$ (http://cinegrain.com/indie/) - if you want to have the full package with the unlimited license you'll have to invest 3000$.
    Last one i've found is indieScans. The've got a 35mm, a 16mm and one 8mm pack for 1000$ each(http://www.indiescans.com/35mm-film-grain/).

    Let me know if i missed or confused something. Would be also nice if you could share your experience with the whole re-graining topic.
     
    Marc Wielage and Jason Myres like this.
  2. FilmConvert grain is scanned in 6K. It works really well in Resolve. Uses you GPU for real time performance and you can apply the grain in a single node with full control over intensity, grain size, etc. No need to use layers or layer nodes. It does emulate film stocks but if you just want grain, you can dial everything else down.

    I've looked at Gorilla Grain but, if I'm not mistaken, it's not real, scanned grain, but a digital simulation (which looks fake to me).

    VisionColor offers a few free 2K scanned grain files, including a real 35mm Kodak one that looks very good. You can get them at http://vision-color.com/free-stuff/
     
  3. Nice! I added it to the list. Seems to be the nicest free bundle so far.
     
  4. I invested in FilmConvert the other day for Resolve (and everything else I have) and have so far been working with it pretty extensively like an addiction !
     
  5. Besites LUT based colorgrading system and Filmschool tutorials http://www.colorghear.com/ includes different classical film grain types.

    They are included if you have a membership and are called: Eastman 100, EXR 250D, EXR 500T, EXR 50D, Shotgun, VISION 320T, VISION 500T, VISION 800T
     
  6. Jason Bowdach likes this.
  7. I got CineGrain & I'm pretty happy with its quality & options. Easy to use in Resolve.
    Another option, if you have Nuke available, is to run out your own Film Grain clip from its various options. It's generated grain, but its pretty good stuff.
     
  8. Another one I've been told about but have not used is Imagenomic:

    http://imagenomic.com/rg.aspx

    ditto with Crumblepop:

    http://www.crumplepop.com/

    Cinegrain is the only one I've seen used at facilities, and I agree, it's expensive for what it is. It's amusing to me, given how many decades we worked on trying to remove grain from feature transfers, to see people now trying to add it back. I can tell you in restoration, the key is keeping the grain even and consistent, which is very hard with films made prior to about 1980.
     
  9. Tried a lot of different ones, but versatility of Filmconvert is the winner for me!
     
  10. A friend of mine is working in a photo lab where they've got a very nice scanner. If the boss don't mind us playing around a little we could make our own grain - out of more than one still. If we do it's going creative commons. We'll see...

    Anyway thanks for all the input. Quite allot of Filmconvert fans here as well.

    I'd also like to know what you personally think of Grain. I'm not talking about projects that are already aimed at reproducing a certain filmic look. I mean more generally. Do you personally think digital film benefits from the extra texture or this little "organic" touch?

    I feel that when i'm watching a movie with obvious grain it makes me realise much more that i'm looking at a screen and sometimes makes it harder to "dive in" the story. It's the same effect like when i see an image with too shallow depth of field, too much motion blur, some obvious color cast, unnatural exposure or contrast... I mean i can find all of these features aesthetically pleasing in some cases but emotionally they make me a little more distant.
     
  11. I agree. Too often, I see looks that are overdone and just sledge-hammered into the feature, whether the scene really needs it or not. This is a particular problem with the "summer blockbuster" look, where they pound some kind of bizarre look into a giant robot scene, making it look even stranger than normal. At some point, you do have to ask how much this is going to distance the audience, even those who aren't technically inclined. Too often, I think filmmakers are guilty of believing if a "little" of something is good, then a lot of it will be even better; the meaning of subtlety gets stomped on too often nowadays.

    Having said that: our job is to give the client what they want. If they want something hideous and ugly, we can gently try to steer them away from that, but beyond that, it's not our film.

    For the last fifteen years, I've rolled my eyes whenever DPs go for the 90-degree shutter option for fast-paced fight scenes, ala Saving Private Ryan. "Oh, high-speed shutter... I guess this means things will get exciting now." <yawn> This is done to death in TV, just a really lame cliche.
     
  12. Waitahminute. The grain scans are not just good for giving digital material a film "look". I have used them in restoring rather ugly 16mm negative-scans, which had such horrible uneven grain or damage that the only course of action was some very heavy-handed smoothing/noise-reduction. This then mostly wiped the original negative film-grain in the process, so: no problemo, givethe film material some nice even grain back. Yes, from Cinegrain. Violá, a nice restored 16mm digital copy.
    A happy end.

    As far as you guys "not getting into the story" if you see grain... well, I guess it is a generational problem. (Maybe you just aren't used to seeing an image larger than an Ipone screen, har-har?) I still live and was raised in the "material world"! The real deal. Gimme some nice grain.
     
    Robert Houllahan likes this.
  13. Cheap way of making your own grain is to find someone that still has Shake running.

    There you generate 50% grain plate the resolution you like, add film grain that you like and render it out.
    Voila!

    There was some options for grain there.

    I also recommend to be super careful with grain that you do not over do it.

    I was on one feature premiere where all the added grain to Alexa material went to sizzling chemistry.
    I could get the idea behind it and maybe on small computer screen it was fine but on the biggest screen you could imagine
    it was visually disturbing.
     
  14. This is exactly the way several major restoration companies work, using grain management. The trick is not starting out with a blurry, soft, over-grain-reduced mess, plus knowing how to sharpen it before introducing the "artificial" grain. I know of one company in particular that has a proprietary method for sampling the grain from the actual film, then stripping all of it away from the entire feature with no artifacts. After color correction and a sharpening kernel, they apply grain at a constant level throughout the entire film.

    But: I also know of some high level studio execs who believe this is "cheating" and believe the results are not authentic and natural. I've seen the results, and in general, I think grain management like this can work fine. Like color correction, grain management requires a lot of experience and good judgement, and it can go terribly wrong in some cases. (Anybody who ever used the old DVNRs in the 1990s will know what I mean.)
     
    Robert Houllahan likes this.
  15. If you use a clip of some film grain, how do you prefer to combine it with your footage? I've normally either used Sapphire Grain or use an Add with a clip but I'm thinking Multiply might be better?
     
  16. just see for the taste of your is the simplest way here i think.
     
  17. Sometimes "Overlay" with opacity is better choice for me.
     
  18. I had a client ask about grain and film damage options, and just came up with some more:

    http://www.artbeats.com/collections/638-Film-Clutter-2-HD/info
    http://www.fxphd.com/store/scratch-fx-by-warren-eagles/
    http://www.grainzilla.com

    The Artbeats collection is extremely expensive -- about $1100 -- but I think Warren Eagles' collection is a much better buy at about 1/4th of that price. Warren has some funny stories about how he put that together over the last 10-15 years, burning up film and setting off fire alarms in the facility.

    Note that RGrain is simulated grain, but I think it's random enough to at least give the image some texture, plus it's fairly inexpensive.
     
    Margus Voll likes this.
  19. Doh, forgot this one:

    http://www.digitalcinemafoundry.com/2010/02/19/free-film-burns-exclusively-here/

    These people are selling a package for $49, but the reality is that it's really just fogging and flares, which I think are pretty widely available. I think what Warren does is a lot more organic and interesting, plus you know it actually came from real celluloid and was done by somebody who knows what they're doing.
     
  20. Jack Jones Colourist

    Jack Jones Colourist Original Member

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    I have to say I own CineGrain, but nothing I've come across compares to the flexibility of DVO Regrain in Nucoda.

    Plus, it's a part of DVO Classic included in the new pricing.
     

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