New Cintel Scanner from BMD

mike burton Apr 7, 2014

  1. So, this announcement is close to my heart. Although I don't see myself purchasing one at this point, I love the idea of it since I own an Arri 435es camera package from years ago and still have tons of old 35mm and 16mm stock i'd love to rescan at 4k or heck even 2K. In addition to having about 10,000ft of Vision 3 stock in a dedicated fridge in my garage, if you didn't get the point, I love film and i love working with film. If this announcement was about 4 years earlier I would have bought one for sure. And if the price was a bit less expensive, say $10K range I'd probably buy one now just because I've always wanted one. But, it would be nothing but a vanity purchase for me at this point. Curious to hear what others think about it.

    http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/cintel
     
  2. There were rumors that they were going to make one ever since Cintel was acquired, so they did! I think film scanning was due for a Moore's law application and $30k is pretty inexpensive and will change some things in my lab business. That said it does say 'coming soon' and BMD is good at announcing products but how will it be in the follow through?

    Will probably buy one.
     
  3. For a 4K scanner, yes, its quite inexpensive. Hopefully they will sell them. Would love to come check it out when and if you buy one :)
     
  4. These have to be some of the most ridiculous product shots I've ever seen.

    Here we see the film scanner installed in the waiting area of Ford Models.

    [​IMG]


    "Hey, where's the scanner?"
    "Take the elevator to the second floor. Hang a left. Can't miss it."
    "You mean the thing hanging under the open staircase that people spill coffee through all the time?"
    "Yeah, that's the one."

    [​IMG]
     
  5. BMD product shots are basically all movie posters.
     
  6. C'mon guys all of our employees at Cinelab Film Lab are models, myself included of course...;-) I'll get your DPX frames Mr. Bay just as soon as I'm done with this pose.......
     
    Pepijn Klijs likes this.
  7. So finally Cintel scanner is out today?

    I can see the drivers on BMD Support site, but no information in newsletter from Grant Petty about Cintel scanner release today.
     
  8. Jesus, I hope nobody puts a film scanner right in a hallway that gets lots of foot traffic! It needs to be in a sealed, well-ventilated room with filtered air and nobody in it (in my opinion).

    This is as ridiculous as the product shots of the Resolve grading room with the monitor 3 feet above the head of the colorist, the room completely illuminated by three different kinds of lighting, and the client getting drunk on wine. (Not that I have a problem with that.)

    [​IMG]

    Nice B&W speakers, though.

    BTW, they demonstrated the scanner at the BMD event in LA a few weeks ago, and the pictures I saw were very nice. But there are still some unanswered questions, like who will make an optical sound scanner accessory, what happens if you need to scan to a format other than their own proprietary format, and how the device looks with print vs. IP vs. IN vs. camera negative. I'll say this: the real-time pin-registration mode seemed to work pretty well.
     
    Robert Houllahan likes this.
  9. The format isn't proprietary. It's public domain. Cinema DNG. Very easy to develop for. And really well documented.
     
  10. I dunno. I would've been a lot happier if they would have allowed just scanning to DPX, which is also open source... as every scanner in the world I'm aware of will already do.
     
  11. I am still wondering if it will ever ship and if it does how bad it will be.
     
  12. If you did dpx then you wouldn't be able to do raw. And you couldn't do optional lossless compression. So you'd have much larger files with no actual benefit. But you'll be happy to know you'll be able to make dpx straight out of the computer driving it through resolve. :)
     
  13. It's like two years behind now. Got a sensor upgrade in the mean time. Do you think red will ever release that laser projector?
     
  14. I was surprised that the scans I saw at the BMD demo in Burbank didn't look that bad to me. What would be interesting would be to try really difficult elements -- overexposed negative, dark prints, marginal CRIs -- and see what happens.

    I dunno. I dealt with scans at Cinesite, Technicolor, and ILM for the last 15 years, and we never needed raw as long as the DMIN and DMAX settings were correct. (And that's a big if.) I'd rather archive the uncompressed DPX scans and then worry about lossless later. I think ending up with ProRes 444 or 444HQ would be fine for final color, as long as all the significant details -- scratch removal, dirt removal, steadying, sprocket repair, grain management, etc. -- were taken care of.

    I'm kind of puzzled that they bundled the Cintel scanner software within Resolve, plus they devoted so much of the manual to setting up and running the scanner. To me, the two products are totally different, and they should've broken out the scanning software as a separate program. The fact that it's still not out tells me there's more work to be done in making it reliable.
     
  15. The issue with these new "scanners" is that they all use color cameras, which in my mind makes them advanced Telecine. I have two scanners (Which I have had allot of input on constructing) one has a 4K CMOS sensor and runs at up to 30fps with perf machine vision stabilization. These scans look better than the old Spirit but none of the color camera machines look as good as true sequential RGB scans with full resolution reading of each color.

    The other scanner has an older 4K monochrome sensor with giant pixels and does sequential RGB Illumination with high CRI LEDs and IR. The real monochrome machine looks better, the color is just more real.

    I would say that the BMD scanner with their 4.6k color cmos sensor might look pretty good but not get much advantage from DPX frames, I don't think the scans will be as good as a real RGB scanner.
     
    Adam Hawkey likes this.
  16. I also find that in film scanning 12bit CCDs have compromises with contrasty material (Print, B&W, Color Reversal) where if running a single flash you have to choose to clip the shadows or the hilites, and the CMOS sensors are generally of lower DR then the CCDs are.

    Many CMOS sensors which advertise 12bit or even 14bit readout tend to overstate the bits and really produce 10bits or less of usable range.

    Our Pin-Reg Xena machine like many other true RGB scanners can do multiple flashes for HDR scanning of contrasty material, you won't find that on the BMD or other Color camera based scanners.

    But they are fast and look better than old big iron telecine.


    YMMV.
     
  17. Jason Myres

    Jason Myres Moderator

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    Not my area of expertise, but isn't this kind of following in the footsteps of running a Spirit with a Davinci 2K?
     
  18. From the BMD site r.e. the scanner:

    Effective Resolutions

    3840 x 2880 - Super 35
    3390 x 2864 - Standard 35
    3390 x 2465 - Anamorphic 35
    1903 x 1143 - Super 16
    1581 x 1154 - Standard 16

    This machine is really going to suck for 16mm. Under-sampled Bayer Mask color cameras and film with grain don't mix well.
     
  19. Jason Myres

    Jason Myres Moderator

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    Is this an issue of the actual resolution being less than the stated (bayer) resolution? Is there way to take advantage of the entire sensor when scanning smaller formats or would that make things way more expensive?
     
  20. Two ways to do this. 1) swap out the sensor block, for a smaller denser sensor. 2) add optics into the equation. Which brings its own barrel of monkeys into the works. Either way is messy. The one they've chosen: crop the existing sensor, is the least cumbersome, but then brings the issue that Bob points out. Low res. Pick your poison.
     

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