Possible to get that look?

Andi Schlesi Nov 3, 2016

  1. Hey there!

    Is it possible to get the look from this video (I guess it was shot on RED) with a Sony FS700 with external ProRes 422 recording? Any ideas on how that look is created? For me it's a little bit blueish and the blacks are lifted a bit, but when I try getting this kind of look with similiar (and similar lit footage, but shot on FS700 422), it looks really different....



    Many thanks!!
     
  2. The camera doesn't dictate the look. All looks (should) mostly come from the art direction and how the footage is actually shot instead of trying to force it in post.
     
    Marc Wielage likes this.
  3. I agree, it's generally the lighting and the exposure that makes the look more than anything else. The look can be changed to a point, but stuff like key-to-fill ratio and all that stuff... it's all from the DP.
     

  4. Well, it's certainly a part of it...

    - the Gopro "look"
    - the iPhone "look"
    - the DSLR (5D) "look"
    - the Alexa "look"
    - the C300 "look"

    .. to name but a few. There's no getting around that a particular camera (+ glass) will impart it's own characteristic to the image.
     
  5. I thought it would be fun to try a couple of images.

    I had a couple of A7S sample footage clips I found n the web a while ago that I that I thought could match a couple of shots from the vimeo vid.

    The sample footage is Slog3. I put an Slog3>rec709 on them and graded and tweaked until I think they are in the ballpark with the vimeo ref.
    Not saying I did a perfect job, but I do think i got close enough for it to work ;)


    Slog3>rec.709

    Screen Shot 2016-11-03 at 13.16.59.jpg


    Grade to match.
    Screen Shot 2016-11-03 at 13.16.18.jpg
    Screen Shot 2016-11-03 at 13.16.32.jpg



    Slog3>rec.709
    Screen Shot 2016-11-03 at 13.17.55.jpg

    Grade to match.
    Screen Shot 2016-11-03 at 13.17.35.jpg
    Screen Shot 2016-11-03 at 13.18.06.jpg
     
  6. FS700 has the worst colour science among all Sony cameras, it would take a lot of effort to get to the ballpark.
     
    Nick Eason likes this.
  7. Hey!

    First of all thanks for the answers! As I'm regularly grabbing through all the interesting threads here I am now really aware of how important lighting and a good camera work are for getting the look afterwards!
    The DP from our latest project shot under similar conditions like in the vimeo ref... my question about the look is actually more about the wide shots at the first part of the vimeo ref (0.04, 0.07, 0.25). I guess it was mainly shot under late morning or early evening light (as our DP did) and the scenery is pretty the same like in our project. But unfortunately we just had a FS700 with external prores 422 recording and I am doing really hard now to get some kind of the look from the reference. Our footage after grading has this odd broadcast look and is actually far away from the filmic look from the vimeo ref. I am even not able to get this cool kind of blueish sky (for example 0.25 in the ref), after working hard with hue/hue and hue/sat in resolve its either real teal or some kind of purple-blueish, lifting the blacks looks washed out ugly and downing the blacks makes the footage real broadcast like... So is there any chance or is it impossible to get that look (what would be understandable for me because of the additional zeros when talking about the price of the red epic and the fs700 ;) )

    @christian bille: thanks for your work, really good result!! I also graded A7s and A7s2, also FS7 footage in the past and for me it is quite easier.. color science is way better. Could you give me some more detail advice what you did to get the footage graded like this? Any particular slog to rec-lut? What did you do in the grading?

    Again, thanks for your advices :)

    Best regards
     

  8. and even to an external recorder is 8bit .....i hate that camera ..but when you get the raw recorder on it ..not so bad but it makes the whole rig 12ft long ...(well very long):)
     
  9. I would bet that if you put one camera in the hands of five different DPs, you'd get five different looks.
     
  10. If anybody remembers Zacutos Great camera shootout? How similiar all the cameras looked once DPs set the lights in the studio for their specific camera. So Marc has a point here. But still, each camera does have a specific look to it. Nobody can deny that.
     
  11. Here:
    If you just want to skip to the part where they show the final comparisons go to 13:50.
    I forgot, that they also grade the footage...
     
    christian bille likes this.
  12. Well certainly 1cam * x number of DP's = x number of looks ;) I won't be arguing that and I don't think it runs counter to the argument that cameras have their own particularities, however small or big they might be. Just like there are different film stocks with each their own characteristics.
    But give 1 DP x number of cameras, graded the same, and there will be small differences though it's possible to minimise those. Looking at the shootout, the youtube quality makes it pretty hard to make much of a distinction between cameras. I downloaded the vimeo "original" and each camera stands out a bit more in the higher quality.

    But whatever the difference between cameras, I still think it's possible to at least approximate a look from one cam to the next, at least in the overall-broad-strokes of things..

    @Andi, to answer your question as to how I got where I got with my attempt, well, I didn't actually do that much.

    Example 1:
    I used an Slog3>LC-709A lut and corrected a bit using offset control before that. After the Lut I actually used RGB balance to approach the somewhat LUT'y look I thought I saw in the vimeo reference (don't know if LUT's where used or not and intentional or not, it just has a not-strong-but-still-there LUT'y kinda look to my eye).
    So 3 nodes. Offset, LUT, RGB mixer. No windows or qualifiers used.

    Example 2:
    This was just 2 nodes, offset and the same Slog3>LC-709A LUT. Removed som saturation as well in node 1, but other than that, just an offset balance and exposure correction.
     
  13. This is quite fun on matching cameras :)

     
  14. haha..well, to make hq footage look like crappy iphone footage (cause crappy it looks) is not so hard, it's the othe way around that gives us trouble.
     
    Marc Wielage likes this.
  15. Yep. They were looking at it on a projector, so they must have seen even a bigger difference. Interesting how that is the point of the video that Gavin pointed to. On internet it can pass...
    The one thing you can't equate for is resolution. Sure you can change the color science to a point and adjust the DR and contrast if you have a totally controlled set in but resolution or how it renders detail is so specific that you can't do much about that. Off course you can downgrade or downscale all the other footage on the timeline but there will still be differences in texture and detail rendering, for instance take this example: anybody remembers 5Dmk2? How ugly it looked but people thought it was sharp? But it was just the aliasing above 700 ppi that made the impression of sharpness. That was really a specific look that couldn't be replicated just with downscaling other higher resolution footage.
     
    christian bille likes this.

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