Workflow / DIT Help Needed!

Stuart Scott Nov 30, 2015

  1. So... Glad to see you all talking about this. Its pretty much what I need advice on.

    We (indy) are starting a new project. Here is what I have on the first shoot. I tried to get everything to 1080 24p as requested.

    Camera Footage:
    3x 5D-m3; AVC, 1920 x 1080, 24p; Primary
    2x Pan P2; MXF, 1280 x 1080i, 29.97 (24p); Secondary
    1x Canon G10; AVC HD, 1920 x 1080, 24p, ; Secondary
    2x GoPro; AVC, 1920 x 1080p, 29.97, Secondary

    The Editor likes the 1080 24p look. But, we will be using the product on web and broadcast (29.97 p and i) so he thought we should edit (PP) in 29.97.
    This will be a lot of multicam seq's.
    I will eventually end up with all of this in Resolve 12.
    Add to that the many differing camera setting limitations (p/i or only certain fps/resolutions)

    So... advice on camera settings, transcodes, and sequence settings?
    Do I transcode everything 24p or 29p, I really don't want to work with interlaced footage if I can avoid it. (using ProRes HQ and LT)?
    Any recommendations for dit/transcoding software?

    Thanks so much.
    Joe Bell likes this.
  2. I probably wouldn't online that nightmare in Resolve and instead asked for a baked master and an EDL to cut it.
    Marc Wielage likes this.
  3. Major problem is the 5d-m3 and Go Pro you will need to assign Timecode to these little buggers before edit starts I would rinse them through resolve creating a nicer format for editorial, MXF or proress then use that as your new master files make sure you aren't losing anything in the clippers. Good luck also I would ask for "Baked master" as "reference" so if you are up shit creek you have a paddle.....
  4. and if your deliverable is 29.97, and 3 of your 4 your camera's are 29.97... it's going to be 29.97 at the end of the day so why would an editor's prefrence for what they see mean anything at all?

    converting 29.97 camera's to 23.98 so the editor "feels good" and then converting them back to 29.97... even if it's Walter Murch cutting i'd advise him to take a chill pill

    and then work at the deliverable spec...
    Samuel Ouimet L. likes this.
  5. I need to apologize for not responding. For some reason I wasn't being notified via email of the thread. Sorry.

    Anyway, thank you for your responses. Helpful, yes.

    So... I will be transcoding no matter what. Would your preferences be to set everything to 29.97? Wouldn't you say there is a difference in look in shooting in 24p and transcoding up, as opposed to shooting in 29.97?
  6. If six of the cameras are 23.98, and just two (GoPros) are 29.97, why convert the whole thing to 29.97?

    I would lose the GoPros and find same-size cameras that can do 23.98 so you can do the entire project in 23.98 without compromise. Little cameras like that do exist; the Blackmagic Pocket Camera is one example.

    Just because it's going on the web (particularly YouTube or Vimeo) doesn't mean it can't be 23.98. I post 23.98 videos up there all the time and they work fine and look fine at this frame rate. If you need to convert it to 59.94i for broadcast, do so at the very end of the project for final delivery.

  7. Thanks Marc. I will recommend. ;)
  8. Not sure if I shouldn't be starting a new thread; but...

    After putting one of these multicam shoots together and reviewing, it is evident that even though designated angles are dedicated, i.e. cam A - talent 1, cam B - talent 2, there are other angles being recorded that would benefit from live coordination, i.e. live feed monitoring and comms.
    Has anyone done much of this? I believe DIT accomplishes something similar on set, am I right?
    Any wireless and streaming recommends? :cool:
  9. There are camera coordinators who do this for live shoots, along with assistant directors and RF communications specialists. Assuming this is a union shoot, there are pre-designated job functions for this.

    If it's non-union, anything goes. Go out and rent a whole bunch of Motorola CP200 walkies ($5/day tops), get some wired headsets, and that will get you by. Assign a channel only to the camera crew so that production conversations don't interfere with their shots. Monitoring live requires cable runs by experienced crews knowing how to set up live broadcasts, particularly video assist people and great camera assistants. Cameras like the 5D are very, very poor choices for live events. My opinion is that you're better off with broadcast video cameras -- even modest ones -- that are better suited for timecode and remote control. Sony's PMW-F5 would be a possibility, and I have seen up to 12 of those used in live concert situations.

    Doing this real cheap with DLSRs will be a recipe for disaster, in my opinion. The central issue will be how to keep multiple cameras in sync, and for that you need external timecode and external video reference 100% of the time. It's all doable, but just not with $1200 cameras.
    Joe Bell and Stuart Scott like this.
  10. Thanks Marc. Understood.
    I wasn't really trying to do a live broadcast, though, as much as simply trying to direct some of the operators so shots weren't duplicated and other angles recorded. Without seeing the shots, this wouldn't be possible. The footage would still be captured on local cards and ingested later.
    I'm assuming the cabling you spoke of was because wireless monitoring was not that good or just too expensive? Then there is the issue of getting several feeds on the same screen – a laptop? All of which is why you were talking Broadcast?
    These projects are being done in house and some union hires, such as sound.
  11. Well, you're shooting in a live situation, so for all practical purposes it's like a live broadcast, whether or not it's really going out. It's more about the shooting style, not the destination.

    It won't work reliably via wireless, not in my experience. If it did work, everybody in the broadcast business would be using wireless monitoring. For rock-solid monitoring, there has to be a hard wire. Whoever is directing the show won't be able to see the cameras without a direct feed. If the camera operators just go at it "blind," the danger is that you'll wind up with identical shots on different cameras (among other problems).

    I again say that cameras like the 5D are not well-suited to what you're trying to do. if you were to rent (say) a half-dozen Sony PMW-F5's, those will work to some degree, but even that's not a full-blown broadcast-style camera. I've seen them used in rock concert and Broadway play situations, so they can work to a point. Anything cheaper will result in quite a few compromises. And little cameras like a 5D are very clunky for making precise moves with long lenses, particularly when the camera operator has to tilt, zoom, focus, and frame all on their own.

    I don't know enough about what you're trying to shoot to say if your planned operation can work, but if it's a repeatable event (like a play or a rock concert or a dance recital), I would shoot it multiple times, maybe twice without an audience with the cameras very close, then once with an audience from a distance. That way, you'll have many times the potential camera angles and you can cut it all together in post. If it's a one-time event, plan accordingly and get lots and lots of cameras, and pay close attention during the dress rehearsal. These things are very stressful, complex, and have great potential to fail. Above all else, make sure you always have another camera to go to, like a lock-down wide shot, which will give you coverage when the other cameras are moving.
    Stuart Scott likes this.
  12. I've graded alot of plays which were shot over two different performances but was open air...great fun trying to match overcast rainy days to bright sunny days

    Can you even jam sync 5Ds timecode together? Or would using 5Ds also end up with you having to manually sync all the multicam shots by eye along with audio?
  13. Do 5Ds even have proper timecode? You don't have to do it by eye though, if all cameras have onboard mics Then premiere can pretty easily sync all of them up automatically now. Highlight clip> right click> create multicam> sync using audio.
    Stuart Scott likes this.
  14. Premiere syncs the audio very well. The sync worked well for all of these cameras in the same multicam timeline.
  15. I see your point. Thanks Marc.
  16. I live in a world of dslr/mirrorless cheapness, and my cameras are always wildly out sync.

    My remedy is basic: a loud visable transient, PluralEyes, then manual alignment.
  17. Move to a world that has timecode cameras!
  18. Not sure if this is too late, but there is a way you can feed timecode in both 5D and gopro's with these:

    I've tried it on a shoot where there was 2 go pro and 2 5D's. Works pretty good ! I recommend a test before though
    Andrew Webb likes this.
  19. Took your advice and start a permanent position somewhere with Sony PDW 700 on 4th of July :-D
    Marc Wielage likes this.

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