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New HP Dreamcolor monitors, 4k capable?

Oh wow so that answers my big question who will offer lowcost colour "accurate" 4k monitors. Just hope the calibration system has been turned up a notch it.
 
Yeah but it just inputs and scales 4K in its native, 2,560 x 1,440, so no true 4K but still interesting for GUI in grading suite?
 
Better good 2.5K than bad 4K!

I'm sure it does a sizable chunk of P3 gamut, problem (or at least it was with original DC) is backlight which is quite off from dci, resulting in blue push towards the bottom. Also the difference in display tech, makes it particularly poor for grading p3.

I think the Z Displays in general are very compelling for the grading suite. Clean minimalist design, good black levels, matte finish. I dig em for GUI display. And would be a top contender in a VFX, CGI interface capacity.
 
One thing I'd like to mention is that the new Dreamcolor engines support a wider variety of probes as well as support YUV or RGB input (including 4:2:2). This means they can be hooked up directly to a decklink's HDMI slot instead of needing RGB conversion before hand.

I'm really curious if they retained the RGB backlight as those parts were incredibly expensive and delicate to match. I imagine they're probably using the RG with red pospher now...
 
new 27" is 10bit
new 24' is not, 8bit + FRC
older 24" is 10bit

I Was searching the HP tech .pdfs for the specs and can't find where you got the info on the new 24' not being 10bit. I may be a bit blind though ;) .

"DreamColor Engine 2: Internal color palette of 4.4 Trillion colors driven by 14-bit internal color precision. The engine outputs 10-bit color that produces 1,024 gray levels per channel and up to 1.07 billion on-screen colors".
 
I Was searching the HP tech .pdfs for the specs and can't find where you got the info on the new 24' not being 10bit. I may be a bit blind though ;) .

"DreamColor Engine 2: Internal color palette of 4.4 Trillion colors driven by 14-bit internal color precision. The engine outputs 10-bit color that produces 1,024 gray levels per channel and up to 1.07 billion on-screen colors".

It's all about the fine print....

HP Z24x.jpg
 
That damn FRC will get you every time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate_control

http://www.flandersscientific.com/index/faqs/faq-10.html?iframe=true&width=730&height=600

On the other hand, Flanders says:

There is a misconception that 8bit with FRC may generate unacceptable artifacts for professional video monitors. Modern day FRC algorithms provide very accurate color reproduction and will actually produce significantly less artifacts when viewing a 10 bit video signal than an 8 bit panel without FRC, which will show some degree of banding and exponentially fewer colors. Native 10 bit panels are of course the best solution, but the price premium is quite significant for a very marginal improvement in performance. 8 bit + FRC is becoming the new norm in many high-end consumer and professional displays. The difference between 8 bit monitors with advanced FRC and native 10 bit monitors is so negligible that many manufacturers now simply refer to both technologies as 10 bit. In the interest of complete clarity and full disclosure FSI will continue to list native 10 bit panels simply as 10 bit and panels with FRC as 10 bit (FRC).

I think what they're saying is 10-bit FRC (aka "fake 10-bit") doesn't necessarily look crappy.
 
Does anybody know when this will be released to retailers? It seems that as of now the zx monitors can be bought only from the official US HP online store...
 
First an introduction. I'm Greg Staten and I'm the DreamColor Architect within Displays Engineering at HP. I was the designer of the new Z27x and Z24x DreamColor displays. I'll be regularly checking this forum and am happy to answer any and all questions regarding this display. To answer a few open questions and make a few comments:


I'm really curious if they retained the RGB backlight as those parts were incredibly expensive and delicate to match. I imagine they're probably using the RG with red pospher now...

We do you a BGr backlight (blue and green LEDs with a red phosphor) as the RGB LED is prohibitively expensive and the backlight manufacturers really don't want to make them as the yields are extremely low - hence the price. That said, the bgR backlight has been custom tuned and is very tightly sorted. We also use a custom chemical mix for the cell RGB filters. The primary reason we did this is that your typical display's blue isn't the right wavelength of blue (but is more easily manufactured). The problem, though, is that the wavelength typically used results in a blue that isn't on the common hue line for the standard (BT.709, P3, etc.) blue and hence most displays cannot accurately reproduce blue. (In most instances, the blue primary is offset negatively in x and positively in y, therefore impacting tones along the blue/green line.)

We had a custom panel designed that put the blue primary outside the primary target and on the common hue line. This means that with very careful binning of the LED/phosphor modules the main variable in blue primary location is the thickness of the blue filter applied to the cell. Being on the common hue line means that the native blue primary will in essence only vary in saturation and we have placed it far enough outside the target primary value that we've are able to reliably hit the primary value during calibration. (BTW, a little secret about LCD displays: the error that is typically allowed for a native primary in LCD panels is 0.03 CIExy! This is industry-wide and the only way you can tighten that spec is to pay for additional sorting at the factory - which means that panels that don't hit the tighter spec are discarded and the cost of those panels rolled into the overall cost you pay for each panel.)


I think what they're saying is 10-bit FRC (aka "fake 10-bit") doesn't necessarily look crappy.


Agree. You can make 8+2 FRC panels that look extremely good and there are both spatial (within frame) and temporal (between frame) dithering that can be used. The Z24x is an 8+2 FRC display and looks quite good. The main limitation of FRC comes when looking at subtle shading across a narrow tonal range and the most common place where artifacts can be seen is in skies, mostly manifesting itself in a grain-like pattern that is an artifact of the dithering.

The Z27x is a true 10-bit panel and provides an additional 2 bits of FRC (so you could call it a 10+2 FRC display, but I typically just refer to it as 10-bit). In this case the dithering is used not so much to add additional tones to the image, but to reduce the higher internal bit precision to that the panel can accept. Proper spatial dithering typically produces better results than truncation. (Incidentally, the Z27x, while capable of both temporal and spatial dithering, ships with temporal dithering disabled. This was done based on feedback from animation/vfx houses that beta tested the display. If desired, though, temporal dithering can be turned back on using the monitor's API.)


Does anybody know when this will be released to retailers? It seems that as of now the zx monitors can be bought only from the official US HP online store...


It has been released to retailers, but it may take a bit longer to reach retailers in the EU. It has been available from BH Photo Video in the US for a couple of weeks now and I know that most of the distributors in the US have inventory now. I will check with the EU folks, but typically it takes a while for these to filter through to all of the retailers. You may have better luck contacting a specialty reseller.


One last thing that I thought I'd mention. One of the unique features of this display is that the calibration engine is built into the display. This means you directly connect an instrument to the display for calibration. We support not just an HP-branded X-Rite i1Display Pro, but also the entire line of Photo Research spectroradiometers, the Klein K10-A and the Konica Minolta CA-310. In addition, the calibration algorithms were developed in cooperation with the color scientists at several large animation/vfx houses and we are very proud of the accuracy - with a PR-740 I can calibrate the display across the entire grayscale, ColorChecker patterns and primary saturation/luminance sweeps to around 0.5 Delta E 2000.
 
It has been released to retailers, but it may take a bit longer to reach retailers in the EU. It has been available from BH Photo Video in the US for a couple of weeks now and I know that most of the distributors in the US have inventory now. I will check with the EU folks, but typically it takes a while for these to filter through to all of the retailers. You may have better luck contacting a specialty reseller

Phone call to HP Canada = 30 min on hold, then no one knows what it is, not in their system, try calling US...
Chat with US sales = yes we have it, no we don't ship over seas
me= i can drive to Bellingham in 20 min
US chat = we don't ship overseas
me= Canada is the big cold place just north of Seattle, no ocean in the way
US chat = we don't ship overseas
me= Can i drop my charge card and pick it up at dropbox i use in Bellingham?
US chat = call HP Canada
US chat closes

yea, good work HP sales dudes...

No sign of it on B&H's site anywhere that i can find as of Friday, i looked there first...

Should note that i own five workstation class HP machines and three of the current 24" DreamColor's, i really appreaate HP's awesome support, and happy to pay a premuim for it, but yea, i can't even get close to getting HP to take my money
 
I know , it's so weird. I had my hp zr2740w die on me twice in the last 9 months and a new one was on my doorstep the next morning both times, but try and call and get through and talk to someone about extended warranty or anything really and hours on hold endless transfers no answers.
 
Phone call to HP Canada = 30 min on hold, then no one knows what it is, not in their system, try calling US...yea, good work HP sales dudes...

No sign of it on B&H's site anywhere that i can find as of Friday, i looked there first...

First off, I'm very sorry to hear about your HP sales chat experience. Despite the best efforts of all involved, sometimes these things happen. If you happen to have a record of the chat still, I will push up the chain to make sure that this is corrected.

Regarding B&H, you can find it at the following link: HP Z27x at BH PhotoVideo. I also just reported to North American web team that the Z27x is missing from the HP Canada website. Again my apologies. I hope this can be correctly shortly.
 
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